by emma schoors
photo by justice dodson
Just ahead of the release of their sophomore album, birdwatching, we caught up with vocalists Briana White and Joey Duffy of CLIFFDIVER to speak about their Oklahoma roots, the writing and recording of their most challenging yet resonant record yet, and the transience of life as reflected in art.
Last summer en-route to Las Vegas, the band survived a freak auto accident that left bassist Tyler Rogers in critical condition. Rogers thankfully recovered, but it was a defining moment for the group that reminded them of their own mortality — birdwatching’s themes, and the band’s outlook on life, were heavily affected as a result. “I think us almost dying last year really changed our mindset on the permanence of anything,” Duffy says. “Everything is always changing and nothing is guaranteed. So due to the nature of that, you can’t just put off dealing with your real issues and feelings. It’s time to take control of your life, and let go of the things no longer serving you.”
Recorded at Barber Shop Studios in New Jersey with the help of producer Brett Romnes, birdwatching manifests as a “collection of moments,” Duffy says, contrasting the linear story their debut offered. It was an opportunity to hone in on trust and openness, which acted as a lifeline to the band creatively while they reckoned with the lasting physical and mental effects of the accident. “Working with Brett felt like fate in a way,” White adds. “He held nothing back working right alongside us to make this album great, and it is great. I’ll be thankful for Brett, Barbershop, and their whole team forever.”
birdwatching releases on Sep. 20 via SideOneDummy — check out our conversation with the band below for insights into the making of the record, Oklahoma-based bands to lend an ear to, and much more.
I’d love to get a rundown on how CLIFFDIVER came to be. I understand you were familiar with each other byway of Tulsa’s music scene before forming the band — what inspired you to come together and solidify this specific lineup?
Joey: “We all met through the scene for sure! Almost everyone had been in some form of a project together besides me, I met everyone through a local music podcast I ran. We slowly continued to add some of our other favorite musicians as we went, and now have a super team in my opinion.”
Why was “dayz gone” chosen as birdwatching’s lead single? What elements of this one popped out at you all, and what inspired you to let it lead this new era?
Joey: “‘dayz gone’ just felt big and anthemic to us when we were writing it. We also really felt like this was one that people would want to sing along to, which they absolutely did this summer and it was awesome. I think it has a universal appeal. Everyone knows what it feels like to be so exhausted and burnt out and wanting to quit. At first listen it can seem like a kind of negative song, but I think it’s really about not giving up, even if you feel like you’re about to break, just keep pushing forward.”
Bri: “It also got my vote because it would get stuck in my head for days on end even after recording, which is usually about the time I might need a break from listening to the songs over and over.”
You’ve described another of the singles, “goin’ for the garbage plate (feat. Stoph Colasanto of Carpool),” as being about experiencing loneliness and stagnation during depressive episodes. I’m curious if songwriting is at all a remedy to those feelings — does it act as a healer for you all to channel pain into pieces of art?
Joey: “Absolutely. I truly feel like being able to get out and share these struggles has done wonders for my mental health. I think the way mental illness really gets to you is in the silence, trying to isolate you and make you feel all alone. When we share our struggles and share our pain, we find others have been in the same place. That kind of resonance is incredible, and it really does go both ways. I think ‘garbage plate’ in particular lends itself to this. It’s a song about progress, but also about the transient nature of mental health. Both the good and bad days end, so sometimes you just have to brace yourself for a bit of a storm with the knowledge that it can’t rain all the time.”
Bri: “I think recognizing your own unhealthy patterns is one of the craziest and hardest parts of the ‘getting better’ journey — you have to get outside of yourself and your issues to even see it. This song is kind of the moment where you finally admit to them.”
“black lodge breakfast burrito (limited time only)” is another memorable single from the record’s tracklisting. Can you give us some insight into the writing and recording of this one, and any musical influences you were tapped into?
Joey: “This song was actually the first thing that I had written for the album. I had that first verse and a melody but that was it, and everything we tried to write after just didn’t feel correct until we got to the studio. Bri came up with this awesome pre chorus and chorus based on the first conversation we had about the song, and it just tied the whole room together. This idea that all your existential dread can keep you locked in. Probably my favorite thing about this album is how collaborative it was. There’s no song on here that we all didn’t have our hands on together.”
Bri: “It might come from being a mom but I only have so much time for my daily existential meltdown, and I think the song kind of captures that part of maturing where you know you need to do the work, you know your feelings and struggles are valid, but all your personal progress is sitting next to the crushing weight and obligation to show up for the people you love, or even work.”
This record represents a renewed spiritual approach for the band. What were some differences you noticed in the way you went about these songs lyrically? Were there any topics you hadn’t covered yet, that you felt compelled to this time around?
Joey: “I felt like the first album was more of a story, with a definitive start and ending, while this album is a collection of moments. It’s more true to real life, there’s nothing simple and easy about it, it’s a complicated mess of good days and bad moments. I think us almost dying last year really changed our mindset on the permanence of anything. Everything is transient, everything is always changing and nothing is guaranteed. So due to the nature of that, you can’t just put off dealing with your real issues and feelings. It’s time to take control of your life and let go of the things no longer serving you. The last album was ‘Do we want to live?’ This album is more ‘How do you deal with a crappy Tuesday?’”
Bri: “I definitely think we approached the process for the album with a lot more trust and openness, and it absolutely felt like a lasting effect of the accident. We knew going in that we wanted to open the conversation to sort of what happens when you’ve done all this work on yourself, but you still have to wake up and walk out the door to a world that remains ever-fucked.”
birdwatching was recorded at Barber Shop Studios in New Jersey. Take us through your decision to work with producer Brett Romnes, and any memorable experiences from your time on the east coast making this album.
Joey: “Brett is a genius, full stop. He understands music in a way that is pretty mind blowing and he really taught us to look at the writing process entirely differently. It was like a boot camp for songwriting. We were in the studio for 30 straight days, and for most of them we got there around 11 am and worked until 2-3 every morning. It was exhausting and incredible, but it really forced us out of our comfort zone. He’s helped make some of our favorite albums, so to be able to understand that process was wonderful. He was so kind and patient with us, while being totally honest and holding us accountable. He would present us with new ideas and then always, ‘Does that scare you? Because there’s no fear in this Dojo.’ It allowed us to get out of our heads and just be present, which I think led to an album that’s so different from anything we thought we were going to make.”
Bri: “I still sometimes feel like I haven’t left the studio mentally, I’m always still pulling from experiences I had recording the album. Working with Brett felt like fate in a way that’s probably way too corny to explain to anyone who wasn’t there. We’d had a wild year as a band and he held nothing back working right alongside us to make this album great, and it is great. I’ll be thankful for Brett, Barbershop, and their whole team forever.
Also, one memorable experience — Dony joined us about halfway through the month to record and when he arrived, we basically greeted him with ‘CLIFFDRIVER,’ which we had already decided he should write the lyrics to and perform. We had written and recorded the music already, everyone having swapped instruments [with] Matt on drums, Eliot on bass, and Tyler on guitar, so we figured Dony should sing. Makes sense, right? It took some convincing, but our boy came through. He’s really big into self improvement and I remember telling him, ‘Megaphone to the world, what do you wanna tell people?’ What we ended up with is so fun and earnest and I love it.”
Something special on the CLIFFDIVER Spotify page is your handpicked ‘Oklahoma On Top’ playlist, featuring OK-based artists. Who are some local acts you’d recommend our readers check out?
Joey: “We love our fellow Oklahomies, and truly think so many of them are going to be household names in the next few years. Some of our favorites are Ben Quad, Red Sun, photocopy, King Pink, SUNFO, Babies on a Halfpipe, Goodridge, Morris Village, Limp Wizurds, PeelingFlesh, A Mixtape Catastrophe, When The Clock Strikes, The Others Like Us, stepmom, Johnny Mullinax Band, Husbands, Downward, Outline In Color, and Team Chino.”
Finally, what are some milestones you’re hoping to reach as a band in the coming year? Any artists you’d like to collaborate with, or venues you’d like to headline?
Joey: “We’d love to go overseas, especially Europe and Japan, that’s probably our biggest goal. More tours with Hot Mulligan, play some cruises and every festival there is. Plus, to have the band become financially sustainable would be nice.”
Bri: “I really just wanna wear this passport out in 2025.”